The Above Top Seceret Site, Page 1

The Above Top Secret Incident
On September 26, 2008, a friend of mine living in Boulder Colorado, alerted me to a site that was discussing the Lunar Orbiter project (link). He did so because he was aware of my long term involvement in the project but was unaware of recent developments. Originally the site contained a full video of the McDonalds where the drives were being referbished and that is what started the entire thread. The video was linked to it's source on YouTube but Dennis demanded that it be taken down, and it was, so it is no longer available. However, you can see some of the related info here and here. On the last mentioned link I was surprised to find out that I was credited with providing the location of the project (thanks to Dennis for the link). Looking at the satellite photos and base map one would get the impression that I provided them to the people at the Above Top Seceret site, but I did not.

For the record, here is exactly what I posted starting here:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread394867/pg4

8/24/08

Greetings,

Zargon's post is exactly true. Only the conspiracy theorists are false. Here is a brief overview of the Lunar Orbiter Data Recovery Project:

This project started in the late 1980's when the National Space Science Data Center (NSSDC) discovered a cache of the only known remaining set of Lunar Orbiter tapes in existence stored in a "salt mine." The story there is that there are abandon salt mines that store government records, as the temperature and humidity are stable. There was some documentation attached indicating what they were and that JPL should be notified as to what their ultimate fate should be. JPL took possession of them in about 1988 or so, as there was some interest in recovering the data so that the images could be digitized and made available to the general public as the pictures were then a bulky 2000, 28" x 30" prints. The problem at that point was that no one knew what technology created the tapes so the format and method was unknown. At the time a private consulting firm became aware of the project and decided to research the issue with the purpose of proposing a data recovery project. After amassing all the Lunar Orbiter literature available, it was determined that the Ampex FR900 tape recorder (the first real video tape recorder), was used to create the tapes. More importantly it was revealed that the data was in an analog format with the video in a format called “Vestigial Sideband Filtered", slow scan TV. This knowledge set about the search for any source of FR900 tape drives. The search covered NASA sites, Vandenberg’s Pacific Missile Range at Kwajalein, the CIA and Egland AFB's radar test site in Florida. Ultimately a total of four tape drives were obtained and as far as is known, are the only remaining drives of their type in the world.

The next problem was to determine if the drives would read a tape without destroying it. After numerous calibrations and experiments on spare tape, it was determined that it would be safe to try one of the Lunar Orbiter tapes. This was done and the specified video spectrum was obtained which proved the capabilities of the drive and that the data on the tape was still there. However, in order to obtain the video from the data, a circuit called the VSB decompressor (or "restorer"), needed to be designed and constructed. This was done and a recognizable sync pulse with video data was retrieved.

This was all accomplished in about 1992. Since then several proposals to NASA and various private sources failed to produce the money required to recover this data. So the tape drives were stored in a "chicken coop" (actually it was a garage / barn combination), for the next 15 or so years. Last year a call was made form the person in the video (who I will only identify as "D" until I can obtain his permission to release his name - though I don't think this mission is actually a secret), called to ask about the tapes and the tape drives as he had some contacts that might be able to help. After visiting the "chicken coop" and ascertaining that the tapes were still at JPL's storage facility, he then made arrangements to transport both to a site in Northern California from the Los Angeles area, which he did. He then assembled a crew of experts in various fields and located a site to carry out his low budget "proof of concept" which turned out to be a McDonalds, which was located on a military base, that was closed due to poor attendance after a government cutback. As it turned out, each of the little tables, normally used for enjoying your "Happy Meal", were excellent workbenches for the various projects associated with bringing the drives back to working condition.

This then is pretty much where it is today. Once five full images are recovered, then the "Proof of Concept" will have been achieved and further funding may follow.

Someone mentioned that Google might be interested. Well they are, and they have visited the site. (More...)

Continued...

Some information that might be of interest:

The products of the original LO project were:
Tape: 2" wide tape that contained all the mission data. There are about 2,000 of them

GRE file: Ground reconstruction 35mm film that were the reconstructed picture "framelett" data
About 30 of these make up one of the 28" x 30" prints.

Prints: The prints are about 28" x 30" in dimensions

There are 4 kinds of data on the FR900 Lunar Orbiter tapes:
Video: From sync to sync represents one scan line. There are 4 scan lines per meter on the surface at best resolution.
There are about 16,600 scan lines per framelett and there are about 30 framelett's per print.

Telemetry: Another channel in the video data is for telemetry, which reports on the status of the satellite.

Carrier: In order to reconstruct the original video data the carrier must be available.
But because it was suppressed by the VSB processing, it was divided by 8 and stuck in the lower sideband.

Audio: There is an audio channel that the various sites recorded the tape ID on as can be heard in the video.

Film in refrigerator:
Some have said that storing film in a refrigerator would extend its life. This is true only for unexposed film.
For exposed film, it is best to have a stable temperature and humidity, cold has no effect.

Tape storage in canisters in picture:
Note that the canisters in one of the pictures with the yellow tape. These are the 2" wide original LO tapes and
are in excellent condition. What is not in the picture are the GRE film, which were also with the tapes.

Pirate Flag:
The pirate flag was placed on the window was for fun as it was seen by some that this mission was going on
oh, shall we say, by any means possible. More for humor I am sure.

If you want more info let me know.

~ Dr. X ~

8/24/08
The film was processed on board the Lunar Orbiters and what you see here are processing defects that occurred there. The system then transmitted the images, warts and all, to the receiving sites. Thus the blotches will be on the recovered data from the tapes.

As for how long magnetization lasts on tapes:
It depends on the strength of the magnetization and the material on which it was impressed. The longest lasting are digital tapes which were recorded to saturation. The LO tapes are analog however, but good analog tapes exist from back in the fifties and wire recordings before that, so this is not a surprise.

~ Dr. X ~

8/24/08
Greetings housegroove23,
Thanks for the help, but I think your advice is for pictures already posted on the 'net. I need to know how to upload or attach pictures from my hard drive to my posting.

Thanks,

~ Dr, X ~

8/24/08
The only reason that I wish to be anonymous at the moment is that though I am involved in the project, I am not the leader of it. So I wish to leave the details as to how much to reveal up to him. I always prefer to ask first, then act, on issues like this. I can say that the project is known in the Lunar community and that it is no secret to them as many have attended some demonstrations of the equipment as has some Google representatives. And in one instance an astronaut who was on a publicity tour was in attendance, I believe.

By the way, I understood that real names were not often used on BLOG sites which is why my real name is not used here. The name comes from a part in a movie that I played. Guess who it was?

~ Dr. X ~

On 9/26/08 I sent the following to you (in part):

Hi Dennis,
Don't know if you are aware of this link:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread394867/pg1

...but the secret is out. I don't know who made the initial posting but it is someone you probably know.

I have made a few comments as Dr. X, but as I didn't know if you wanted the details leaked out, I said little else.

On the home front:
3 days to the Big Move... <snip>

You replied (in part):

9/26/08 3:38 PM
Dennis Ray Wingo wrote: Mark

Thanks for the heads up. I have castigated the person involved and hopefully these will be removed.

Dennis <snip>

Some hours later you wrote:

9/26/88 7:58 PM
I REALLY WISH THAT YOU HAD NOT TOLD THOSE DAMN IDIOTS WHERE THE DAMNED MCDONALDS WAS LOCATED. SOME OF THESE FUCKWITS MIGHT GO AND TRY AND BREAK IN. DID YOU THINK OF THAT.

GOOD FUCKING LORD.

Six minutes later:

MARK

PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY PICTURES TO THAT SITE. GOOD FUCKING LORD MAN THOSE IDIOTS WILL COME TO THE PLACE AND BREAK IN. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW THIS COULD SCREW UP WHAT YOU AND I HAVE WORKED FOR TWO FUCKING DECADES TO ACCOMPLISH.

DENNIS

37 minutes later:

I'VE TALKED WITH NASA HEADQUARTERS. WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HIRE 24HR SECURITY NOW. DO YOU HAVE ANY FUCKING IDEA WHAT THIS IS GOING TO COST?

GOOD LORD MARK WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING.

On Sep 26, 2008, at 11:13 PM, Mark Nelson wrote:

No actually I didn't think people scattered across the world could all of a sudden swoop down on a military then get in to a base that is guarded by the military. I guess we are worse off than I thought. In addition I didn't thing it wasn't such a secret endeavor given the Lunar science conference. In addition I believe I only said that it was in northern California on a military base. It was you who posted your email address which was then traced to you via your ID on face book which they tracked down. In addition to the posting via the photographer who did the video who also had pictures of model launchings showing the distinctive hanger at Ames. I posted noting more than general info. Far far less than what the video photographer did. SO BACK OFF!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXwGnN6WiCw
http://www.youtube.com/user/wingod2001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/erikcharlton/sets/72157606931400558/

I'll save you some money for your guards. Count me out.

~ Mark ~

As said before, I was totally stunned by this. Because I was under pressure regarding the move to Arizona that we have been working [on] for 2 years, as well as ongoing projects, I over reacted. I said as much in my reply to you on 10/6/08 where I think I explained the situation fairly well:

I meant to answer this sooner but the move to Arizona and a crashed hard drive, probably due to the move, got in the way.

Comments below...

Dennis Ray Wingo wrote:
> Then you simply do not understand that this is no longer a military base. Anyone with a drivers license can get into this place. If we were behind the NASA gate, which requires a NASA badge then that would be another thing.

No, I didn't know that it wasn't a military base any more. It looked like one to me.

> If you read the thread, they found the place based upon your information that it was a military base in northern CA that was spun down.

Initially I had thought that that information was very general in that there are numerous bases in the northern California, most of which were down sized to some extent, and therefore didn't point to a specific location. Note that instead of just posting detailed information I contacted you about it first, just in case you might not want the details (like names of people involved etc.) made public. I was totally unprepared for the reply.

> I can reproduce the entire thread to show this if you desire.

No need, I know where it is.

> If you no longer wish to be associated with this project then that is your decision but you should have at least checked with me before posting anything about the project. It is not a secret endeavour but it is also not public at this time until we get an image. This act, of yours, and the idiots that posted the picture (including a major silicon valley venture capitalist who has already apologized for his stupidity) endangers our ability to get further funding from NASA as it is very difficult to obtain at this time, and ANY negative publicity could kill the effort. You know how hard you tried to get funding and failed. This is a delicately balanced thread that could be cut at any moment.
>
> Don't be pissed off because I chewed you out. Be pissed off because you are partly responsible for the project being endangered from the nut cases at ATP.

What happened was this:
I was totally unaware of this site until a friend of mine in Boulder CO who knew of my involvement with LO since 1991, alerted me to it. I thought it interesting that anyone outside our small group had any interest in Lunar Orbiter, or even knew what it was. As I read the posted information, complete with video and many stills, I assumed that the project was pubic, especially as no one had ever said it wasn't. As I read further I noted that some of the postings were blatantly incorrect and as I thought they might be interested in some facts (at least as I knew them), I signed on and blogged a little. This is something I rarely ever do as I just don't have the time, but as you know I have a long standing interest in the project and thought the people posting were genuinely interested and I could not see the harm. I was totally unaware of the conspiratorial nature of the site however. The comments about secret moon bases I wrote off in the same way that I wrote off those that were posted on the Lunar Science Conferences (at AMES) website. After a few innocuous postings (so I thought), I contacted you about it, thinking you would find the site and interest in the project of interest. I really thought you would find it interesting that what appeared to me to be the general public would be interested. Further, I referred to you as the big "D" because I thought you would find it humors when you read it in the same way that some refer to the boss as the big cheese which is why I then contacted you about the site. I was totally blind sided by your retort. In my entire career I have never been yelled at, in print or in person, much less sworn at, by anyone for any reason. That event I considered to be very unprofessional and insulting to me.

To sum up:
I have been working on this project since about 1987 and have a lot of time and energy invested in it. Therefore I have no desire to give up on it now nor to do anything that would harm it's successful conclusion. Further, I believe my contribution (tape drives, tape heads, documentation and general support) has has been very beneficial to the project. The fact that this project is secret, but not a secret, was unclear to me and my posting was thought to be of no consequence at the time. I went back and read the thread and compared to the video and pictures that were posted, as well as the fact that they found you via your videos, your Facebook profile and a posting with your phone number, makes the significance of my posting rather small in my eyes. In rereading your emails I have come to the conclusion that you may have over reacted to the situation. Perhaps we both did.

~ Mark Nelson ~

In the end I even tried to be consolatory by saying "...you may have over reacted. Perhaps we both did."

I think this post makes my position clear:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread394867/pg7

 

8/24/08
reply to post by MrPenny

The only reason that I wish to be anonymous at the moment is that though I am involved in the project, I am not the leader of it. So I wish to leave the details as to how much to reveal up to him. I always prefer to ask first, then act, on issues like this. I can say that the project is known in the Lunar community and that it is no secret to them as many have attended some demonstrations of the equipment as has some Google representatives. And in one instance an astronaut who was on a publicity tour was in attendance, I believe.

By the way, I understood that real names were not often used on BLOG sites which is why my real name is not used here. The name comes from a part in a movie that I played. Guess who it was?

~ Dr. X ~

As to who gets credit for "outing" you:
Here is the first reference I can find:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread394867/pg7
9/26/08
At the risk of beating a dead horse, the building could be leased. We can definitely say that it was a fast food place at one time. I think the link provided indicated that the person doing the videoing had just been to Ames Research Center. So, that would make this located in California. Now, the McD's could have been located on base and closed for the very reason Mr. X gave, which was due to a slowdown.

I see no evidence of a hoax and I think pulling the audio off of 40 year old data reels is fascnating. If you wish to depart this thread, go ahead as I have no reason to keep you here.

Here is another one posted on the same day:

Just and FYI, I was able to find out the D's name in about two minutes by following the link that the OP gave for the picture. Just wanted you to know that this information can be found very easily.

...and another:

Actually, the person doing the video was at the Ames Research Center on other business and stopped by this location when done there.

Perhaps you should go check out the link the OP gave as it has more background info for this story rather than jumping to conclusions.

But here is a definitive one:

9/26/08

"Originally posted by Dr. X
Well, it appears that the big "D" is not too happy with the OP for posting, so I am told."

Well sending me the info via mail then is probably not a good way to stop me from 'sharing'. Its not a secret what I talk about on my site and here...

Now I don't know who the big "D" is yet as I am in between jobs and have not had time beyond responding to the thread posts... but this is where I got the 'tip' from

"Regarding: www.thelivingmoon.com...

You may be interested to see the source tapes... I saw them Saturday:
www.flickr.com...
www.flickr.com...

Comments or additional flavor are welcome there... Folks seem interested...

Cheers,
Steve"

..and the flickr link they refer to are here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/2878302406/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/2873888043

I never did find where they credit me as the reason they found your site as you have said. Also, there is far more information on those flickr sites than anything I ever posted. So, it appears that the "credit" belongs to the person who posted the video (and it is interesting that at this point they appear to be on to you also [they find you later]). In fact the entire thread on ATS and everything subsequent to that can be crediteded to the person who posted the video. If they hadn't posted that video, then the thread would have not existed. Consequently I would appreciate it that in the future you refrained from trying to blame for this.

Which brings up an interesting question:
You said that the person who did this was from Google. However I have noted a similarity between the videos created by Keith Cowling and the one posted on ATS. This, coupled with his comment that he 'liked to alter pictures and post them on sites (like ATS I presume), just to stir up some controversy', makes me think the posted video was his. Was it him?

> This caused us to lose our first go at the full $350k that we needed that had just been approved, and then withdrawn, due to the problems that this whole thing caused.

Forgive me if I find it hard to believe that highly placed officials in NASA (presumably), who are funding this project, would be scared off by people on a conspiracy website posting information about a project that is not even secret. If this is indeed the case then these people should not be in the position they are.

Since we seem to have something of a credibility gap, and since I have had to prove my intentions over and over again, and it seems like you keep trying to blame me for this, mind if I ask you for some verification? What department of NASA, or group, or person is the one responsible for pulling the funding? What was their reasoning for this? Was it really the posting on the ATS site or was it something else?

> This has cost us a lot of progress as we should have had that money two months ago but still do not have it (though it is on the way) to do the work that we need to do to get ready for the production operation of the tape drives and tapes. Now while you did not cause that, by posting you kept the flame of conspiracy burning and helped them to find us. When you were castigated for this, you quit the project and as far as we knew, never to return.

In a reply to an email from you on 10/11/08 titled "Moving forward" in which you said "Lets just get the job done," you made the same assertion and I replied:

"Sorry for any contributions I made to this. I had no idea this would ever be an issue in any way."

I think all the verbage form the quoted emails (above), make it perfectly clear that I had no desire to cause any problem for the project and what I posted was pretty general.

As to the problems caused by my posting on ATS:
You said that you would have to hire 24 hour security. You said that you feared that someone might break in and steal something. None of that happened did it? The only thing that did happen, that I am aware, of is one guy stopped by and asked some questions about the project.

> You come back weeks later, asking to continue with the project and promising to finish your schematic.

I did not 'ask to continue' as per my exact quote earlier. Here is exactly what I said:

To sum up:
I have been working on this project since about 1987 and have a lot of time and energy invested in it. Therefore I have no desire to give up on it now nor to do anything that would harm it's successful conclusion. Further, I believe my contribution (tape drives, tape heads, documentation and general support) has has been very beneficial to the project. The fact that this project is secret, but not a secret, was unclear to me and my posting was thought to be of no consequence at the time. I went back and read the thread and compared to the video and pictures that were posted, as well as the fact that they found you via your videos, your Facebook profile and a posting with your phone number, makes the significance of my posting rather small in my eyes. In rereading your emails I have come to the conclusion that you may have over reacted to the situation. Perhaps we both did.

In other words, I withdrew my "Count me out." statement which I felt justified in doing.